Carnal Christians? (Part 3)

(From Pastor Mike Miller's website, http://www.straightpathsbiblechurch.com, June 26, 2005)

And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? 1 Cor. 3:1-4

These are the four verses that are used most often to “prove” that there is such a thing as a “carnal” Christian. If you ignore the rest of the New Testament and take these verses out of context it does sound convincing, but if you are familiar with the Bible you will have trouble with this interpretation because it completely contradicts so many other verses. How can you believe that these four verses teach that a person can be saved, but still living according to the lust of the flesh and not subject to God when you read these verses:

For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. Rom. 8:6-9

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:6

As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 1 Cor. 15:48

For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. Rom. 7:5

There are many other verses that could be given to show that the teaching of a “carnal” Christian is a contradiction of the Scriptures. Let’s take a look at 1 Cor. 3:1-4 and see if we can explain what Paul is saying without contradicting other Scriptures.

The first evidence given to “prove” that these are actually “carnal” Christians is the fact that Paul greets them by calling them “brethren.” This is just not correct. Paul was addressing a local church and he knew, as well as we do, that not everyone in a local church is truly saved. If we were to write a letter to a church as a whole or stand in front of a church we would greet them with a similar salutation. Just because he said “brethren” doesn’t mean that he considered them all to be saved. What other word could he have used, and how else could he have sensibly and properly addressed them? It is common in the Bible for the word “brethren” to be used referring to one’s own countrymen, or to one who belongs to the same group of people. At least three times in the first three chapters of Acts Peter called the unconverted Jews he was preaching to “brethren.” Stephen called the Jews who were about to kill him “brethren” in Acts 7:2. Paul called the Jews “brethren” in Acts 13:26, Acts 13:38, again in Acts 22:1, Acts 23:1, Acts 23:5, Acts 23:6, and Acts 28:17. There is abundant evidence in the Word of God that Paul used the word “brethren” when addressing people who were obviously not saved. Therefore, it is very foolish to base a doctrine that contradicts so many other Scriptures on one single word.

Now there is a contrast drawn between “spiritual” and “carnal.” He says he couldn’t speak to them as spiritual, but as to carnal. These words are opposites. Spiritual means NOT fleshly, while carnal means fleshly. Spiritual means regenerated – carnal means unregenerate. Any dictionary will tell you that. A spiritual person is controlled and led by the Spirit of God, while a carnal person is controlled and led by the lusts of the flesh. Paul says that if he spoke to them of spiritual things they were “not able to bear it”– because they were carnal. The natural man IS a carnal man, and he cannot understand the (spiritual) things of God. Paul told us this plainly in the verses just prior to this in 1 Cor. 2:14:

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Paul is saying that if these people were spiritual they would be able to understand and he could talk to them about spiritual things. However, he has found that to be impossible because they are carnal. They have missed it. They aren’t listening. They aren’t receiving. He has to back up and start over with the basic principles of sin and salvation.

“Even as unto babes in Christ.” This phrase is taken as further proof that we have saved people here who are living a continuous, carnal life. Notice that it says, “AS UNTO.” He doesn’t say he is talking to babes in Christ, but “AS UNTO” babes in Christ. He says, “I am talking to people who have little or no understanding.” Babies are carnal – BUT babies grow up. These people might have been considered babes in Christ if they had just been saved, but because they hadn’t grown and were still unable to understand he pronounced them “carnal,” which is a very strong word, when studied in light of the Scriptures. There might be a time when a person first gets saved that he appears to be carnal because he has to sort out some things and learn the difference, but this doesn’t take very long with the Spirit of God and the Word of God as your guides. Paul is saying to these people that he sees no evidence they are really saved because they aren’t acting or thinking any differently than they did before they made their profession. He isn’t condemning the whole church any more than a preacher today is when he gets up and preaches on sin. There were good people there, who loved God and were growing in grace, but there were also some folks sitting there who were continuing to live with the same attitudes and affections that they had always had. Paul was speaking to the whole church as he dealt with these people.

“Envying, strife, and divisions” are the words he used to describe their carnality. While there were moral sins in the church at Corinth, as we see from the rest of the letters to them, those sins are not what he is referring to in particular here. These people were fighting and quarrelling about things like which preacher they liked the most. They were envious of each other and doing things to hurt each other because of their envy. When a church is full of envy, strife, and divisions it is because there are carnal people involved. It is because there are LOST people in the middle of things who do not understand spiritual things. They are trying to have their say in running the church and their motives and reasoning are carnal. They see everything from the viewpoint of an unconverted person. They do not understand the things of God and cannot know them because they are spiritually discerned.

If you are a critic I can read your mind right now. You are thinking that I have no right to judge so harshly. But my friend, it isn’t me who is doing the judging – the Word of God judges, and makes it very clear that carnal people are LOST people. It is YOUR mind that is so confused by false teaching that you can’t make heads or tails of who is saved and who is lost – even when they live in such a way that the Bible marks them clearly. You are saying to yourself right now, “This can’t be true because I know some good people who have acted in a carnal way and I just can’t believe they are lost.”

First of all, you need to be made aware of the fact that you are judging the Word of God by your experience, or what you see in the experience of others. You are making void the Word of God by the “traditions” of men (things they do). You should believe the Word of God and measure yourself and others by THAT standard. “Let God be true, and every man a liar.” The Bible is true even if it condemns our best friend or our loved ones. If they are to have any hope at all we must believe God and not judge God and his Word by THEIR lifestyle.

You can say, “I hear what you are saying, but I know a preacher who is just like what you are describing.” So what? Preachers aren’t exempt from the Word of God, either. The Bible tells us plainly that Satan has his “ministers of righteousness.” They are in the church and even preach righteousness, but their life tells on them and reveals what they really are, when they are full of envy, strife, and divisions. Again, you are setting up people as your standard and trying to nullify the plain Word of God because you know someone who is “saved” but acts like a carnal person.

Finally, it is a fact that a saved person may do a carnal thing from time to time. As long as we are able to be tempted we will be able to sin. A saved person is not exempt from being overcome by a fault, but a saved person cannot CONTINUE in it. God promises to deal with his children. He promises to chasten us and keep us in line. The Bible is clear that those who are not chastened are NOT God’s children. People who are truly saved are teachable and correctable. Not only God, but fellow Christians can point out to them where their life is not consistent with the Word of God and they will receive instruction and correct the problem. Carnal people reject it out of hand because they cannot understand spiritual things. They are judging themselves by others and comparing themselves among themselves, and they are not wise.

What Paul is saying here in 1 Cor. 3:1-4 is, “If the shoe fits, wear it! If you aren’t lost, quit acting like you are!” Just as in any church, there were no doubt people there who were saved, but caught up in the ruckus that was being stirred by the carnal people there. Without a doubt there were some who repented at Paul’s instructions and got right with God. Then there were others who resented his rebuke and remained just as they were – carnal. The good people of God who were right all along were glad and thankful for plain preaching that was consistent with the Word of God and dealt directly with the problem that was tearing up the church.

Paul was just doing some good preaching to these people who had problems in the church. You will search far and wide to find a church in our day that DOESN”T have these same problems. But you will have to search even harder for a preacher who will deal with the problem like Paul did. There are very few who even believe there is a real difference between the lost and the saved anymore. They make a place for everybody in the church. You can be saved and be a good Christian, or you can be saved and be a “carnal” Christian, and no one has a right to judge your “salvation.” Therefore, the churches are filled with lost (carnal) people who are making the decisions and directing the work of the church with no spiritual understanding or discernment. Thankfully for us, there was an Apostle Paul there who cared for them and was faithful to deal with them in truth and correct the problem. Because of that the Gospel was carried across the world and we are the glad recipients. But what are our descendants going to say about us one day? What is going to become of the church after a generation of carnal people have held the reins?

Carnal Christian? (Part 2)

(From Pastor Mike Miller's website, http://www.straightpathsbiblechurch.com, June 19, 2005)

There are only two kinds of people in the world – lost and saved. There are not three types of people, as so many of our modern Bible teachers would have us believe. The common teaching is that there are lost people, saved people, and saved people who are carnal. They arrive at this brilliant conclusion by reading 1 Cor 3:1-4, out of context, and failing to compare it with the rest of the New Testament. You will search the words of Jesus in vain trying to find such a teaching. He NEVER said anything that would agree with the modern interpretation of those verses. You will also have to wrest certain other Scriptures in the New Testament to make them teach such a thing, and after you do that, your private interpretation will be in direct contradiction to the plain teaching of the rest of the New Testament, and in fact, the entire Bible.

The very idea of a “carnal” Christian is absurd and so obviously in opposition to the clear teaching of the Bible that it is truly amazing that anyone on earth would believe it. Of course, when you consider the depravity of man and the fact that he loves himself and his sin supremely, it is no wonder that the great majority of professing Christians find this doctrine of devils so appealing. It provides a way to be on your way to heaven and enjoy all the pleasures of sin at the same time. Hey, it’s the best of both worlds – they think!

Sadly, carnal people just don’t know God, so they are living in the deceit of their own heart. They not only will miss heaven, but they are also missing the joy of knowing God in this life. They have settled for dead religion when they could have had eternal, spiritual life. Because they are blinded by the god of this world, whom they serve, they are not even aware of the sorry state of their own soul. To top it off, some Bible school graduate tells them they are saved because of their profession of faith, and that they are just “carnal,” or “babes in Christ” and they will grow up some day – when “God deals with their heart” about these things. This relieves all pressure to forsake their “carnality” (sin) and effectively blocks the Holy Spirit from working on their hearts, which leaves them in a lost and hopeless state.

Webster’s 1828 Dictionary defines carnal as:
1. Pertaining to flesh; fleshly; sensual; opposed to spiritual; as carnal pleasure.
2. Being in the natural state; unregenerate.
3. Pertaining to the ceremonial law; as carnal ordinances. Heb. 9:10.
4. Lecherous; lustful; libidinous; given to sensual indulgence.

Strong’s Concordance defines “carnal” as used in 1 Cor 3 this way:
From G4561; pertaining to flesh, that is, (by extension) bodily, temporal, or
(by implication) animal, unregenerate: — carnal, fleshly.

It is obvious that the word carnal describes someone who is not regenerated. It describes someone who is still under the control of fleshly desires as opposed to someone who is under the control of the Spirit of God. The carnal man and the spiritual man are contrary one to another, and a person cannot be both at the same time. You are either carnally minded or you are spiritually minded. Your life is either guided by your fleshly desires or it is guided by God’s Word and the Holy Spirit.

The Bible says that you are abiding in death and the enemy of God if you are carnal-minded:

For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. Rom. 8:6-7

Notice that the carnal man is not subject to the law of God, “neither indeed can be.” How can someone who knows anything about the Bible say a person like this is saved? The Bible is so clear on the fact that those who are saved keep his commandments:

And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 1 John 2:3

By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. 1 John 5:2-3

The Bible says you cannot please God if you are carnal.

So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. Rom. 8:8

And the following verse makes it very clear that those who are saved are not carnal:

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. Rom. 8:9

And again, the Scriptures couldn’t be clearer about the fact that those who are truly saved are overcomers:

For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. 5Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? 1 John 5:4-5

That is obviously NOT a description of a carnal person.

These are just a few verses, but the Bible is full of this teaching from cover to cover! How amazing that people can teach such a thing as “carnal” Christianity! Instead of trusting and believing the Word of God they are looking at those who are sitting in the church pews and redefining salvation so that it works for these “carnal” people. Sometimes it is a loved one who is “carnal” and you just can’t bring yourself to accept the fact that they are LOST, so you accept this false teaching in your mind, but your heart doesn’t agree with it. How many times have I heard people tell about their loved one who isn’t living right and then say something like, “I guess they are saved, but I sure don’t understand how they can live that way.” The very idea of someone being saved and living in sin is a contradiction to our own conscience! If you have a loved one who is “carnal” but professes to be saved, you had better deal with them as though they are lost. That is their ONLY hope. If you even suggest to them that you think they might be saved, but just “carnal,” you will put a stumblingblock in front of them that they won’t likely be able to overcome. They will settle right down in their “carnality” and find themselves in hell one day. Do not have a part in the deception of their heart!

It is a very sad tragedy what happens to the sinner who is never delivered from his sin and is convinced by other so-called Christians that he is OK and on his way to heaven. But consider what a tragedy it is for the church and the kingdom of God that such a teaching has gained such a foothold. Holiness is the very thing that marks God’s people and distinguishes them from the world. When the church gives this up we have given up everything. We have exchanged our “glory for that which doth not profit.” (Jer. 2:11)

Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men. Matt. 5:13

The obvious difference between God’s people and the world is what makes our preaching and our testimony effective. That difference is HOLINESS. Without new life, a new walk, a new creature, the world has no reason to think that we have anything worth seeking after. Unless they see a supernatural change in us they will not believe the gospel. The gospel is NOT just the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus. It is the death, burial, and resurrection shown forth in our own life when we are born again. We “take up our cross and follow him.” The old man is dead, he is buried, and we are risen anew to walk with Christ. When people see the gospel in reality in our life they cannot ignore it. To invent a “carnal” Christian, who doesn’t keep God’s commandments, continues to live in fleshly sins and lusts, and is not subject to God in his life, is to nullify all that gives power to our message. The Holy Ghost will simply not agree with that kind of teaching and He will not work with us in our endeavors to promote such false teaching. THAT leaves us powerless, because Jesus said that without Him, we could do NOTHING.

I have seen also in the prophets of Jerusalem an horrible thing: they commit adultery, and walk in lies: they strengthen also the hands of evildoers, that none doth return from his wickedness: they are all of them unto me as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorrah. Jer. 23:14

God always condemns anything that “strengthens the hand of evildoers.” Any teaching that makes it easier for people to sin, or to explain their sin, or to excuse their sin, is a false teaching and God doesn’t agree with it. Certainly, the teaching of “carnal” Christianity strengthens the hands of evildoers. Notice the part of the verse above that says, “…that none doth return from his wickedness.” The result of the teachings of those apostate prophets was that people didn’t get delivered from their sin – they just kept on living in it. Doesn’t that sound familiar when you look at the state of Christianity in our day? Isn’t that the greatest difference between the Christianity of today and that of our forefathers? EVERYBODY is saved in our day. I have had people tell me they were saved while they were holding a beer in one hand and a cigarette in the other. I have had people take God’s name in vain a dozen times while talking with them, and then tell me they are saved and an active member of some church. We are living in a day when porn queens, movie stars, rock musicians, and sports heroes who take drugs and live lower than barnyard animals, all say they are saved and on their way to heaven. The really, really sad part is that most professing Christians of today think I am out of line for “judging” people like that. In their mind, these people “might” be saved and I have no right to judge them. Jesus said, “as it was in the days of Sodom, so shall it also be…” The sodomites used the same complaint against Lot after he had asked them not to do so “wickedly.” They accused him of judging them and said he had no right to do that.

And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door. Gen. 19:9

Therefore, believing such doctrines as “carnal” Christianity has brought the church so low that many, if not most, of those who claim to be Christians, have the same way of thinking as the men of Sodom! They can’t “judge” people because you can’t tell “what is in their hearts.” I believe that is a bunch of hogwash! I think that “out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaketh.” I believe that what you see on the outside is a very good indicator of what is on the inside. Carnal people are lost, unregenerate, and in need of a good dose of old-fashioned salvation! If what they have is not enough to deliver them from their carnality now it is certainly not enough to deliver them from hell and get them to heaven!

I also believe there is much hypocrisy on the part of those who teach this false doctrine of “carnal” Christianity. Many of them do not live their own lives after the flesh, but they teach others that it is possible to do so. What they won’t allow for themselves they do allow for others. What they know in their heart God would not allow them to do they encourage others to do. They also scold anyone who would criticize these “carnal” Christians for living the way they do, or for questioning their “salvation.”

Most of the time I hear two contradicting versions of what they believe. If you talk about the fact that “if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature,” they will agree wholeheartedly with you. If you talk about how that God delivers sinners and saves them from their sin, they will agree with that. If you talk about how it just can’t be possible for a person to get truly born again and continue in a habitual, continual lifestyle of sin, they will agree with that, too. But then say you don’t believe there is such a thing as a “carnal” Christian, and immediately you find yourself at odds with them. They think there MUST be a place for such a creature, because the church is full of them, and they CAN’T ALL be lost, so they defend them with all their strength! Hypocrisy! Confusion! Contradiction! Are they in for a surprise when judgment time comes!

You cannot be consistent and in agreement with the Bible if you insist that there are people who are truly born again, but live their lives in continual, habitual sin. You cannot believe the Bible and also believe that there are people who are saved, but who are not subject to God, his Son, or his law. That idea is totally contrary to everything the Bible teaches about sin, forgiveness, redemption, and salvation. Saved people are led by the Spirit of God – not their carnal lusts. They live a life of holiness – not a life of carnality! Your conscience tells you that is right! The Word of God tells you that is right! And the Spirit of God tells you that is right! You may reject all their counsel, but you will believe it is right when we stand in judgment before God, because He will stay true to his Word on this matter. “Let God be true and every man a liar.”

Preacher, tell people the truth! Carnal people are LOST! Don’t say to them “peace, peace” when there is no peace! Cry aloud! Spare not! Show the people their sins! God says that is their only hope, so don’t be a party to their damnation! Don’t water it down in order to gain their favor now, because you will stand in judgment one day for every word you say! People have deceitful hearts and are seeking a way to hold onto the world with one hand and Jesus with the other. Don’t make it any easier for them to be deceived! Make the way of the Lord straight!

Carnal Christians? (Part 1)

(From Pastor Mike Miller's website, http://www.straightpathsbiblechurch.com, June 13, 2005)

If you talk to the average professing Christian, they will defend this creature that is found nowhere in the Bible – a “Carnal Christian.” The first thought that comes to my mind is this:

But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof. Rom. 13:14

“Make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof,” but isn’t that exactly what believing in a carnal Christian is? You are making a place for something the Bible doesn’t. Not only that, but you are making a place for something the Bible strictly forbids, condemns, and clearly defines as enmity with God. 

For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. Rom. 8:6-8 

The carnal mind is not subject to the law of God and indeed it CAN’T be! The carnal mind does not and cannot obey the law of God. Yet many claim that a person like this is saved. They have a real problem explaining all those verses in the Bible that say we can, do, and must obey if we are saved:

Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; 2 Cor. 10:5

And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him. Acts 5:32

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Matt. 7:21

The Bible promises that carnal people are to be judged by God. These are people who are not subject to God and his law, those who do not obey him.

In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 2 Thess. 1:8

For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 1 Pet. 4:17

Those who are truly saved obey God – they are NOT carnally minded:

And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; Heb. 5:9

The whole idea of Romans 8 is to make a division between those who walk after the Spirit and those who walk after the flesh. Those who walk after the spirit are saved – those who walk after the flesh are not. You cannot be both at the same time – you are either walking after the flesh or you are walking after the Spirit. The verses above plainly show that one is life and one is death. If Christ lives in you the body is dead and you do not walk after the flesh anymore. It is not your lifestyle and not your habit. If the Spirit of Christ does not live in you then you are not saved:

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. Rom. 8:9

Much more can be said about this matter. There are some verses that are used to “prove” the existence of “carnal Christians” but they do no such thing. The Bible is very clear in the few verses we have presented here that carnality and true salvation do not go together. The Word of God is the standard and we should judge ourselves and others by that – not by looking around at what is sitting in the church pews calling themselves “carnal Christians.”

A story in the news this week talked about a porn star who is going to be at a fundraiser dinner for the Republican Party in a week or two. She will be there with the President and many of our so-called conservative leaders. She says she is a Christian! She reads her Bible and prays every night. She says that she isn’t as bad as a lot of people and when she acts in those pornographic movies it isn’t really her – she is pretending to be someone else. She says God looks on the heart and she isn’t immoral just because she does those things for the camera. She is a “carnal Christian.” Check out the article on Worldnetdaily.com here: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44671

All the above is a true story, but very few Christians would accept her testimony as real. They can’t believe that a porn star could be a Christian, but they believe in “carnal Christians.” What hypocrites! They are teaching exactly the same thing as this woman is professing, but they have an imaginary line or limit where you just can’t be a Christian and do those things. They are powerless to condemn this woman because they really believe just like she does. There really is no difference between the lost and saved. A Christian can do anything! Just because he is saved doesn’t mean he can’t be carnal! But I remind you that is just the logic of men, while the Word of God makes a clear difference and very plainly teaches quite the opposite.

There are no carnal Christians, there are simply carnal people and spiritual people. There are people who walk after the flesh and those who walk after the Spirit. Just as God judged his people in the past He will judge this wicked generation for blurring the lines and failing to make a difference between the clean and the unclean.

Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they showed difference between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among them. Ezek. 22:26